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Hello everyone, I am new to and excited to be in the world of dwarf geckos. I already own many reptiles but I have some questions. I know dwarf geckos are not the most easy to handle lizards, but I wanted to know if there are any that can tolerate handling. I have been looking at Lygodactylus williamsi and I am absolutely fascinated, so here are my questions. Would a breeding pair be fine in a 8x8x8 or in a 8x8x12(inches). Also do you know how much they cost. I am going to Reptile Super Show soon and wanted to know if I would see any and if I did, does anyone have an estimate at price.

Thank you Dwarf Gecko Community
- Daniel

Hi Daniel,

As you may have noticed, most of the forum is written in a language other than English. It is German because this forum is based in Germany. I guess nobody will know how much the cheapest L. williamsi pair on a fair in Los Angeles, USA, will cost. In Germany they became pretty expensive because they are protected by CITES now and there aren't any legal exports anymore. A pair costs about a 150 EUR at least.

No, a terrarium or should I call it a tank because fish tanks are what you normally use in the USA, with a size of 8" x 8" x 8" or 8" x 8" x 12" is way too small for a Lygodactylus pair. A proper European style terrarium with a size of at least 1.5 feet x 1.5 feet x 2 feet would be a proper enclosure to keep them. Maybe an Exo Terrarium tank will do with proper lamps.

You should not even try to handle these small geckos because you won't be able to do this unless you force them. It might kill them. Be patient and observe them. That's it.

If you are seriosly interested in these geckos, start reading here: http://www.dwarfgeckos.com/lygodactylus/l_w/lygodactylus_williamsi.php

Kind regards,
Robert

Hey Robert, nice to meet you. I really appreciate your answer to my questions. Is there any species of gecko that could go in one of these tanks. I'm not trying to decide on the gecko I want by what is smallest and most convenient. But I just happen to have these tanks laying around and was hoping to fill them. If there are absolutely no species that would love happily in them, I may look into a small Invertebrate. Thank You

- Daniel

Hi Daniel,

Sorry for my aggressive tone but it was meant to meet the naivety of your first post here. A newbie asking if he might get cheap a protected species to "handle them" and store them otherwise in a way too small enclosure. That is how it sounds. Such a gecko should not be an impluse buy and it should not be handled at all, except for brining it to a vet (which is normally not necessary). They are really beautiful yes but this let to their near extinction in nature. The vast majority just hardly keeps them alive for some time but doesn't breed them.... do I need to say more?

I'm not sure what kind of tanks you have. Normally Americans use fish tanks with a screen top and call it a terrarium. Something might survive in there... There is a reason why European terrariums look different. They have at least two openings for fresh air and use the chimney effect for ventilation. Proper ventilation is absolutely necessary. Not only to avoid suffocation but also to keep a proper micro climate, avoid mold and so on.

The tanks size you mentioned is pretty small for any kind of gecko, even the smallest ones. It will be hard to create any kind of climate in them. For an experienced breeder it is possible to use them, e.g. to raise juveniles. But as a beginner I would not try to keep dwarf geckos in such a small tank. The smaller the gecko, the harder it becomes to meet their requirements. You will need a varity of tiny feeder insects and a stable micro climate to avoid dehydration. Start with a 4 inch gecko, not with a 2 inch one. Get a proper terrarium and try to keep them alive and breeding for at least a year. Start with the terrarium and feeder insects weeks before you buy the geckos to have everything running and have time to ask questions. There are lots of people here who are willing to help you, if you are serious about it and willing to accept some advise. In my experience the hardest part is to offer them week after week a variety of tiny feeder insects (springtails, micro crickets, fruitflies, tiny roaches, isopods, firebrats and so on). If the tank is build right, there is not much you can do wrong when it comes to heat, light and water. So their food will be the challenge.

BTW, from what I have seen recently a single L. williamsi specimen cost about US$ 100-150, a pair more than US$ 300. In November 2015 a pair was offered for $375 at facebook in the Dwarf Geckos Classifieds & Discussion Group. Expect to pay at least another $100 for a proper terrarium for them.

Best regards,
Robert

Hello once again Robert, I understand that these tanks are very small for any species and I understand that ventilation could be an issue, but the tank I speak of is indeed an Exo Terrarium.. As you said Being a newbie I really wasn't sure what conditions people have these animals in, hence coming to the forum. I was also receiving mixed signals on what is a proper size, as the website DwarfGeckos.com says that some of these species can be kept "happily" in these size tanks. I'm not sure how they would gage happiness. Whether it be activitie, breeding, and well they're eating, I'm not sure. As a keeper of other reptiles I understand that proper size is not avoidable and if possible it is best to give extra space. I am really glad you responded and helped me understand these animals more.

I also understand research is a necessity, so I come to the forums to see others experiences before looking at buying. I by no means want to be cheap when it comes to owning pets. It was under a circumstance the I received this tank (Exo Terrarium 8x8x12inch.) so thank you for giving me more insight on these tiny creatures.

-Daniel

Hi Daniel,

These tiny Exo Terrarium tanks with a size of just 8 x 8 x 12 inch are not even sold here in Germany. So I didn't think of them. They might be useful to raise single Lygodactylus hatchlings. But it will require a lot of maintenance. Tiny gecko species like the medium sized Sphaerodactylus or the African species Saurodactylus brosseti can also be kept in it. But one issue will still remain: the micro climate. The opening at the front is a bit too small and the screen on the top too large. It will dry out quickly. An inch of moist (not wet) soil will help but daily misting is still necessary. An inch of soil dries out pretty quick within just a couple of days. I'm not sure where exactly you are located. In central and nothern Europe we need to heat our homes in winter for a couple of months. The relative humidity in most homes drops to 30% or less, which is worse than a desert. A large screen top will become an issue in this situation. Even the Lygodactylus hatchlings new UV-light and basking spot, which is hard to instal on top of such a tiny terrarium. The basking spot will cause tremdenous evaporation, which means misting once daily is a minimum. So I wouldn't even recommend them to raise hatchlings of Lygodactylus species. Most of these dwarf geckos need at least 50% humidity. 60-80% are much better. An exception are Saurodactylus brosseti, which come from very arid regions in Morocco. Not much grows there. I found them myself during a field trip in 2015....

I still consider a 1.5 feet x 1.5 feet x 2 feet sized terrarium a good start for a pair of any Lygodactylus species. They are pretty active and move more than Phelsuma in my own experience. They can aslo become quite aggressive among each other, so it is best to start with a pair, not a group, in a decent sized terrarium.

Best regards,
Robert

PS "T e r r a" is automatically corrected to Terrarium here. Don't ask me why. I had to enter spaces between the letters to spell it without the automatic correction.

Actually Robert, they are sold here. https://www.hornbach.de/shop/Terrarium- ... tikel.html

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Maureen Winter
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Viele verschiedene Paroedura, Ebenavia, Phelsuma, Lygodactylus & Sphaerodactylus Arten

Deutsch ist nicht meine Muttersprache, seid bitte nett! : P